This recap from last night's discussion may not be all encompasing. Due to unforseen circumstances we were forced to move locations for one night, and ended up splitting into 2 discussion groups. Please add to, or rectify anything incorrect in this recap!
This ALL is based on our experiences in a church.
Both ducussions began with the question: WHAT IS CHURCH?
-an orginization/institution
+ran much more like a buisness than not
+community?? of people with similar beliefs?
+structured/ government systems?
-a set time to come together as a "church"
+contains some "service" (worship?)
+a place to make you feel better about yourself- making us better people?
+a place to make us feel worse about ourselves- emphasis on us being "sinful"
A quote that was shared: "Sunday's from 11-12 are the most divided time in America." Is this true?
A question that was asked: Can humans, by nature, tolerate a lack of orginization or structure?
+perhaps we're afraid of not knowing, so, through the modern mindset/lens, we apply structure (based on scientific process).
+Everything is according to how we as humans have applied constructs to "reality".
The other question that was explored: HOW ARE WE DIFFERENT FROM A CHURCH (our divine conversations discussion group)?
-We allow people freedom to be themselves (can have a beer, curse, share their raw thoughts, speak their mind)--the oppertunity to be REAL (although we agreed this is what church is supposed to allow).
-NO ties to the institution
-No judgemental/better than the world/everyone else mindset
-trace is here!
-Similar belliefs is NOT what brings us together-we can have, and encourage differing ideas/thoughts/beliefs, and have to be respectful of those ideas.
+What brings us together is our willingness to explore our individual journeys???
-No Gov. system, no hired leader, a communal ownership!
Thoughts we ended on:
-we are not a "church", although we have aspects of a church, and we may be "church" for some people.
-Since we are not founded on theology, if we were a "church", we would be the "church of respect"
WE ARE STRIVING TO LIVE UP TO OUR PURPOSE: TO BE AN OPEN COMMUNITY WHERE ALL VIEWS AND IDEAS ARE WELCOME; WHERE WE SPEAK OPENLY AND RESPECTFULLY ABOUT OUR OWN JOURNEYS, SPIRITUALITY, AND REALITIES (personal, communal, national, and worldly).
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2 comments:
Anonymous said...
here is the lyrics to the song, for those that were at my end of the table, for everyone else, i shall explain.
Talib Kweli is a hiphop artist from Brooklyn. His new album "Eardrum" contains a song called "Give 'em Hell" and its rather pertinent (or so i thought) to some of the things we discuss in this group.
Ready or not
[Chorus]
It’s all going to (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
Yup, they giving us (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
Word
[Verse 1]
Every Sunday dressing up catching gossip at its worst
Couldn’t see the difference in the Baptist and the Catholic Church
Caught up in the rapture of the first chapter and second verse
If we all God’s children then what’s the word of the reverend worth
Taught early that faith is blind like justice when you facing time
If we all made in God’s image then that means his face is mine
Wait or is that blasphemy it’s logical it has to be
If I don’t look like my father then the way I live is bastardly
Naturally that’s confusing to a young’n trying to follow Christ
Taught that if you don’t know Jesus then you lead a hollow life
Never question the fact that Jesus was Jewish not a Christian
Or that Christianity was law according to politicians
Who was King James?
And why did he think it was so vital to remove chapters and make his own version of the Bible
They say Hell is underground and Heaven is in the sky
And they say that’s where you go when you die but how they know
[Chorus]
It’s all going to (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
Yup, they giving us (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
[Verse 2]
I’ve been to many churches I’ve quoted many verses
I’ve dealt with my base-self I controlled my many urges
I used to study my lessons
It was a blessing not a curse
I learned that Heaven and Hell exist right here on Earth, word
Studied with Rastafarians and learned from the dreads that Hell is called Babylon
And that’s where them crazy boarheads dwell
They got us thinking that Muslims like to make bombs
But real Muslims believe in paradise and the resist the Shaitan.
So it all sound the same to me
That’s why when they say one is right and the other is wrong it just sound like game to me
It’s like God skipped past the church and came to me
No that ain’t vain of me
It’s just a particular way that I came to see
The difference between those who claim to be
Religious and those that say they spiritual
And recognizing that life is full of miracles
You could see my glow in a rhyme
The poem divine ‘cause it coincide with a grow in the time that those who looking for God knowin' to go inside
[Chorus]
It’s all going to (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
Yup, they giving us (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
Yup, they giving us (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
Yup
[Verse 3]
Yo, living in mass confusion
Looking for absolution
The gas-inducing psychopath produce the last solution
Based on his interpretation of what the words were saying
Trying to get to God but ended up doing the work of Satan
Religion create the vision
Make the Muslim hate the Christian
Make the Christian hate the Jew
Make the rules of faith
That you condition to and to you gotta follow
And God forbid you go to Hell
But if you ever walked through any ghetto then you know it well
We in the third eye of the storm
[Chorus]
It’s all going to (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
Yup, they giving us (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
It’s all going to (Hell)
Yup, we living in (Hell)
Yup, they giving us (Hell)
[Outro]
The Lord is my shepherd I shall not want
Just because the lord is my shepherd don’t mean I gotta be no sheep
You feel me?
More blood is spilled over religion than anything in world history
We saying the same thing
-Ben
September 20, 2007 10:38 AM
Justin said...
Thanks ben,
I'll try to post a recap today, and probably port your response over to the recap to consolidate discussion.
I think this goes to show that there are a lot of people (just like some of us) that, for differing reasons, are at odds with church. My fear is that it keeps them from exploring the spiritual side (whatever that may be (please don't read only christian into that)) of their personal journey. I think a big part of that is because there are few safe places that are available to them.
that is the question our side ended with last night. Is our group (that is not a church in the institutional sense) the type of place where we are open to everyone's spiritual journey? That is our goal, and hopefully we are being (or at least becoming) that for people! But first we have to become post-Christian, and welcoming to all forms of spirituality for discussion!
I'll have to check this out! thanks again ben!
peace
September 20, 2007 10:56 AM
Trace said...
Now as we all know, I am not down with the Hippity Hop, but I like this Talib fellow. I went and heard the song on his my space page and watched "The Proud" video among others. It was good stuff. I believe Ben said it well when he said Talib actually has something to say, and that is worth listening to from any genre.
September 20, 2007 12:20 PM
hey, I just posted 2 blogs that have a tie-in to our topics in the past couple of weeks. "Bullet in the Blue Sky" & "Truth Wars: declaring war on yoga"
thought you might find those interesting. leave me your thoughts, here or there whichever!
http://camelbo.blogspot.com/
peace
justin
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