The Big White Question Mark In The Room

Ok, so we tabled the discussion on the Mother Teresa Article until next week. So CLICK HERE FOR NEXT WEEK'S TOPIC AND PLEASE READ BEFORE WED.

Instead we talked about some things going on in our lives. One topic that we we spent some time on was how our lives seem to have so many questions, and so few answers. This seems to be a place that many of us found ourselves departing with the traditional Church.
Things we said/asked

-Is asking those hard questions about our spirituality bad?
+ if not, then why is it discouraged in churches?
+ Why is open dialogue/thought not encouraged and taught?
-We have both a need and an OBLIGATION to question everything?! both personally and corporately. This includes the religious institutions, and institutional thinking/teaching.

-What about having doubts/doubting?
+everyone has doubts, just some people get so good at ignoring them that they forget they have them!
+we're told not to doubt/question, but instead, "just have faith".
=what does that really mean?- Don't question when logic/answers run out, but then just believe what you're being told regardless?
= how can we NOT DOUBT? We are told not to have doubts, but we can't just turn it on and off. WE can't NOT DOUBT!
_______________________

We then moved onto the topic of authenticity. We said that this is something that our group values highly and is something that is vital to our group working.

-What does being Authentic mean?
+Being who you really are--What does that mean?
= One's true Personality
= Being who we really are in all we say and do
= not coming and conforming to what we think others want us to be
= Taking off all masks!

-Why do we Value Authenticity?
+"everyone around us plays politics! we all want to be liked/loved/or voted into whatever we're running for, be it some office, or prom queen/king."
+"we wear masks because we SEEK LOVE"
= "not enough love in the world/our lives=the need to wear masks."

We ended with 2 questions that we didn't finish exploring (perhaps the conversation will be continued here):

1) HOW DO WE FIND/EMBRACE THAT "PERFECT LOVE" AND SHOW COMPLETE ACCEPTANCE TO INDIVIDUALS WHO MIGHT MAKE US UNCOMFORTABLE??

2) WHERE ARE OUR LIMITATIONS IN THIS LOVE?

until next wed....

"Ma Teresa's Joined the Mob, Unhappy With her Full-Time Job"

A possible Discussion topic this week comes from an article in Time Magazine in August about Mother Teresa's

"dark times". This article is based on this book of her coorespondences about her faith.

Click here for the online article!

There are many directions we can take this in discussion group, but we'll just post the article here and discuss it on wed. PLEASE READ BEFORE COMING AS TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS!!!!! (it's easier to read if you print it fyi).

Who Are We? Who, Who? Who, Who?

This recap from last night's discussion may not be all encompasing. Due to unforseen circumstances we were forced to move locations for one night, and ended up splitting into 2 discussion groups. Please add to, or rectify anything incorrect in this recap!

This ALL is based on our experiences in a church.

Both ducussions began with the question: WHAT IS CHURCH?
-an orginization/institution
+ran much more like a buisness than not
+community?? of people with similar beliefs?
+structured/ government systems?

-a set time to come together as a "church"
+contains some "service" (worship?)
+a place to make you feel better about yourself- making us better people?
+a place to make us feel worse about ourselves- emphasis on us being "sinful"

A quote that was shared: "Sunday's from 11-12 are the most divided time in America." Is this true?

A question that was asked: Can humans, by nature, tolerate a lack of orginization or structure?
+perhaps we're afraid of not knowing, so, through the modern mindset/lens, we apply structure (based on scientific process).
+Everything is according to how we as humans have applied constructs to "reality".

The other question that was explored: HOW ARE WE DIFFERENT FROM A CHURCH (our divine conversations discussion group)?

-We allow people freedom to be themselves (can have a beer, curse, share their raw thoughts, speak their mind)--the oppertunity to be REAL (although we agreed this is what church is supposed to allow).
-NO ties to the institution
-No judgemental/better than the world/everyone else mindset
-trace is here!
-Similar belliefs is NOT what brings us together-we can have, and encourage differing ideas/thoughts/beliefs, and have to be respectful of those ideas.
+What brings us together is our willingness to explore our individual journeys???
-No Gov. system, no hired leader, a communal ownership!

Thoughts we ended on:
-we are not a "church", although we have aspects of a church, and we may be "church" for some people.
-Since we are not founded on theology, if we were a "church", we would be the "church of respect"

WE ARE STRIVING TO LIVE UP TO OUR PURPOSE: TO BE AN OPEN COMMUNITY WHERE ALL VIEWS AND IDEAS ARE WELCOME; WHERE WE SPEAK OPENLY AND RESPECTFULLY ABOUT OUR OWN JOURNEYS, SPIRITUALITY, AND REALITIES (personal, communal, national, and worldly).

Potent Potables to Ponder

Possible questions to think about for the continued discussion on the Church and us this wed. Just things to think about!

what is the Church?

What is it's function supposed to be?

What makes our discussion group different from a church?

Do we need the church? why or why not?

In your mind, is there hope for the church and what would it take to get it to where you think it needs to be?

Can something like our discussion group actually happen in a church setting? why or why not?

JUST SOME THINGS TO THINK ABOUT! CAN'T WAIT TO SEE YOU ALL WED. NIGHT!

Deflating the Church

This Wed. we starts deconstructing some of the things that we feel we are missing out on in the Church, and vise verse. PLEASE NOTE: this recap may come across as harsh or very negative, however, it WAS a conversation that took place and not a crusade on the church. The purpose was to better understand some of the reasons that we are in a group like Divine Conversations, and understanding where some of us have departed from the Church as a whole, or simply portions of the institution! As always, If something that you said is missed in this recap, or incorrectly presented, please add it to the comments with apologies all around!

-The Church seems to care about the smaller stuff rather than the bigger issues:

+ you can't have authentic conversations (like we do in this group) in most churches

+ people in the church are more concerned about you cursing than a lot more Important things

+ you are not allowed to be who you really are, instead you are expected to conform or mask into who they want you to be.

-What Does the Ch. care about?

+The "easy problems"--things they can take a definitive stance on without much effort on their part.

+clinging to it's traditions: type of worship, who sits where, making sure the flowers are visible,etc...

-The ch. seems to focus on the same things over and over again

-The markers for measure by the Ch. show that they are more interested in things other than spiritual growth

-Emphasizes "Blind Faith"= just believe!

-focus on the answers with no room for the real questions people have.

-don't encourage critical thinking about one's faith

-20th century American Ch. seems only interested in about the "afterlife", not the world "right now"

+American Society (capitalism) plays a part in the Ch.'s complacency?

++Like most Americans in general, American Christianity (esp. in the south), focuses on "being comfortable"

-This was brought up as a reference: What should the Ch. "Rethink"? what should we as a group...as individuals "rethink"?

-The fear factor

+both in Gov. and in the Ch.

++we are scared, so much so that we no longer take responsibility or speak out

++ Scared of what?

=fear of being ostracized

=fear of losing jobs/positions

=fear of losing comfort

=fear of being outside the status quo

=others?

-The ch. doesn't seem to care about the individual's voice, and doesn't allow us to speak.

-Is it the Ch. we have a problem with, or the INSTITUTION of the Ch.? or both?

+THERE ARE STILL GOOD THINGS ABOUT THE CH.!

+THERE ARE STILL GOOD PEOPLE IN THE CH.!

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS PART ONE OF AN ONGOING DISCUSSION WE WILL CONTINUE NEXT WEEK! NEXT WEEK WE WILL ASK NEW QUESTIONS LIKE, "WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT THE CH.?"

Email any other questions you would like posted in advance about us/the Ch. for the blog topic for next week to conversationsdivine@gmail.com look for that post monday or tues. of next week!

LET THE CONVERSATIONS CONTINUE!

On the Tip of Our Tounge

on the right you will see a couple of books/links posted. This section is called: Books we can't stop talking about (if anyone can think of a better title email it to divineconversations@gmail.com). Unless there is any objections, i thought it would be neat to post 1 or 2 books (both serious and fictional) that we've talked about in conversations (within wed. night, on the blog, or in smaller group conversations. These books can pertain to the current topic(s) at hand, Like the non-fiction one listed, as well as just something that we have found some of us have a common interest in (such as the fiction one listed). These books will stay up for approximately one month. for any other book suggestions, email divine conversations with the title, author, why you think it is relevant, and an amazon or B&N link! hope you enjoy this flavor!

admin.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE BOOKS PRESENTED IN NO WAY REPRESENT ANY VIEW OF THE GROUP AS A WHOLE, NOR NECESSARILY REPRESENT THE COMPLETE VIEW OF ANY INDIVIDUAL! THIS IS SIMPLY FOR COMMUNITY BUILDING!

Pride and Prejudice

So, a conversation that's come up between some in the community is something that they all are willing to bring into the wed. night get-together as a topic. It kind-of goes back to the picture in our first possible topic post.

Mary has spoken about it on her blog post, "Finding My Own Way Out: Seperate Lives" and we think that her post/voice is a good place to start on this conversation!

This topic of dialouge has been discussed between individuals before this post, and after some of those conversations a statement was made by Alison that, "we really need to talk about each person's relationship/feelings towards the institutional Church. We (the Divine Conversations community) can't become who we are trying to be (a community that provides what many of us feel are lacking in the Church), until we all deal with this issue.

the conversation has already begun. Talk about it with each other! Talk about it with others. Read Mary's thoughts and the comments to her blog, and then continue the conversation within our community (on here, and comming up this wed. night...sept. 12th @7:30pm). Please either place your commments on this Blog, or duplicate them here if you post on Mary's Blog to keep confusion to a minimum!

Also feel free to go back to the post of the picture of the church, that may be our point of starting the topic on wed.

look forward to the conversation!

p.s. yes, the picture is of an inflatable church! if we get to big for the coffee house, they have an inflatable pub too:)

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE WITH PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS! DON'T LET A NEW TOPIC OR RECAP KEEP YOU FROM CONVERSING ON PREVIOUS TOPICS AS WELL!